Everted saccules?

[Fenway]

So before the vet started on Fenway's TPLO, he did a respiratory exam. he found everted saccules, which he explained are the result of an elongated palate. he didnt want to combine a respiratory surgery with an orthopedic surgery, but suggested that at some point we have his palate shortened and the saccules removed.

This was a little surprising to us since Fenway has had no real symptoms of something wrong. He occasionally snores, but not always and never too loud. he is pretty active for a bulldog and hasn't seemed to slow him down. 

so my question is whether or not some degree of this is "normal" in a bulldog? or will Fenway need to have ANOTHER procedure done?

[MedicBarbie]

They (the e-vet) thought Phats had this when she had stridor (a seal like bark-breathing).  I thought otherwise, because Phats has great nostrils, and I can see her epiglottis when she pants...  I'm also fairly certain I could intubate her from across the room.   So I did some research.

Very basically, exverted larngeal saccules are the end result of the increased airway pressures of the bulldog.  Since they are brachycephalic, their work of breathing is much more than a long nosed dog.  Over time, the increased pressures causes stress on the airway, and causes the saccules to turn the wrong way, which isn't an issue if the dog can breathe around it, but he/she needs extra monitoring during times of excitement/heat, etc.

SO, is it normal?  No, not really - but it is somewhat common in the bulldog if that makes sense.

Will he need surgery?  I think that depends on Fenway.... I would get another opinion to be 100% sure.  JMHO.

[ksdstny]

harlow's old vet told us she had an elongated palate and i took it with a grain of salt since i wasnt too crazy about him, then we found our new vet who is exceptional in his treatment of bullies and he also told us her palate was elongated and her nares were very small (which we knew), so when he did her spay he did the other procedures as well. i cant tell you how happy i am with our decision, she is breathing so much better then she did before, the difference is amazing.

i agree with mel though i would get a 2nd opinion unless you have 100% trust in the vet.

[Stan's Mum]

I started to reply earlier, but my post got stuck in la la land.  Anyhoo, Stan had his everted laryngeal saccules and a good chunk of an elongated soft palate removed.  It was discovered by his ophthalmic surgeon during cherry eye surgery.  I took that as a first opinion and then went to see a surgeon who performs those types of procedures.  We were told the best examination is when they are under anaesthesia, so the second doc only did a look-see down his throat and listened to his heart and lungs.  She concurred with the ophthalmologist and furthermore insisted that we not put it off.  Stanley breathes much better now and my only regret was the enormous vet bill.  I strongly recommend a second opinion for any procedure that requires general anaesthesia for people or animals. 

I'm sorry that Fenway is having so many problems right now. Hugs and kisses to the big guy!

Chantel

[BeachBullyPC]

So I hate to bring up a topic from 2008, but this came up in my sesarch and is exactly what we were told. I should mention, our Bulldog just had TPLO surgery done by the same exact vet as Fenway and this guy told us word for word what Fenway's mom posted.  That he has everted saccules and an elongated soft palate that needs to be fixed.  His regular Bulldog vet never mentioned any of this and he was the one who performed the neuter so surely would have seen something if it was there.

Now we're wondering if this guy just says this to all Bulldog owners.  PC had a hell of a response to the anesthetic and we really don't want to put him under again unless absolutely necessary.  We saw the vet today and he  brought it up again.  What would you do?  We are thinking of getting a 2nd opinion but wouldn't they need to put him under to see if there is an issue? We're trying to avoid that. 

[Susan & the bullies]

I totally understand your position.  I would say this, if PC doesn't show signs of respiratory problems in your day to day life I would leave well enough alone, BUT I would monitor him like a hawk during walks and exercise, knowing that his breathing could potentially be a problem (even with the surgery, they need monitoring as we all know).  In our case, Auggie so clearly needed the surgery, he was always gasping, choking, and sounding like his airway was obstructed so he had the surgery. He was immediately improved from it. Violet on the other hand, never sounded this way and has not had her palette done. When walking she definitely pants sooner and harder than he does. But we are careful.

Wish I had something more concrete to say. It's a tough call.

[emmabull]

The Orthopedic surgeon checked Emma while she was undergoing her patella surgeries. Fortunately for her she had a great palate and no breathing issues. I know the vet that did Emma's spay didn't check her palate. You might want to call the vet that did the neuter and ask if the palate was checked at the time. Some vets do not check for that while doing neuters and spays (although I would think a bulldog vet would).   

[BeachBullyPC]

So I spoke to our regular vet and breeder, and they both are against this surgery.  They said he doesn't need it and it can do more harm than good, given his history.  Given that he almost died from the anesthesia, we're going to hold off since I'd die if something happened to him 2 months after his TPLO.   And our Bulldog vet does this procedure as well and almost choked when I told him that this guy wanted $2500.  He does it for under $1k. 

[ksdstny]

my vet checked and did both harlow and steelers when they were sparyed and neutered. for very little money. we couldnt be happier.

i dont know if i would take the reg. vet and breeders word for it when they were the ones who recommended the "not so great surgeon" who you were losing your mind over. jmho

[BeachBullyPC]

i dont know if i would take the reg. vet and breeders word for it when they were the ones who recommended the "not so great surgeon" who you were losing your mind over. jmho

I completely trust our regular vet.  Neither our vet or breeder have used the other vet personally, but know many Bulldog owners that have and loved him. The third clinic I called for a possible consultation wanted to do the consult/surgery same day, without even seeing the dog, which is crazy imo.  So, bad vets all around.  While the initial vet was cheaper, PC's health is worth every penny so we went with a vet we liked more.  We weren't looking to save money on our dog's health.   While this guy is an orthopedic surgeon, he only sees 1-2 Bulldogs a month he said, hardly enough to know the breed.  And since I'm not the first Bulldog owner to get the same exact speech regarding this, of course I'm going to question it.  This is my dog and he can't speak for himself.

[Fenway]

we basically came to the same conclusion - dont fix what aint broken. we figured he breathes pretty well... for a bulldog. its been 2 years now and hasn't been an issue.

[BeachBullyPC]

we basically came to the same conclusion - dont fix what aint broken. we figured he breathes pretty well... for a bulldog. its been 2 years now and hasn't been an issue.

I agree!  I was able to track down 2 more Bulldog owners who used him for this surgery.  They both said what you and me said...that he told them that they need surgery for their palate and everted saccules.  They didn't do it either, and one is 3 years post op and the other 2 and doing fine.  So that's 4 Bulldog owners now, and I'm sure many more if I research!