Friendly agression

[markc]

This has probably been discussed on the board already, but we're looking for some pointers on dealing with Oliver's friendly agression.  He wants SO MUCH to visit other dogs that he charges to them or at least pulls so hard on the leash that the other dogs and their people think he is coming at them agressivley.  All he wants to do is play with them - but bullies play harder than most other dogs, especially the neighbor's shi-tzu. 
He also attacks his half-sister, Annie to play with her.  The bulldog in her is fine with that, and she just wrestles him to the ground - but he gets right up and goes back at her so they go over and over and over - growling and "biting" each other, stump-tails wagging all the time.  (Open mouth "biting", never a real bite)  Oliver also nips at Annie's elbows and heels, and she spins on him and knocks him off with a push and a growl to tell him "Knock that off!" but he keeps on doing it.

When we catch this behavior, we've put him on the floor and told him "No", put him on the floor and growled at him, turned him aside with a firm "No", put him in his crate for a time-out, etc.  So far we haven't found the right correction. Any thoughts on curbing this behavior? 

For those with the thought of a high protein diet being the problem, we are feeding Hill's Science Diet puppy formula.
Thanks,
Mark and Oliver

[Bluto's Mom]

I am sorry I don't have alot of experience with the friendly aggression, I had problems on the opposite end but hopefully someone will come along with advice. How old is Oliver?

[markc]

Oliver is a just over eight months old now, so his puppy-brain is pretty much full grown, but he is still learning the rules about interaction with dogs and with people.

[mtc]

Oliver is a just over eight months old now, so his puppy-brain is pretty much full grown, but he is still learning the rules about interaction with dogs and with people.

    

His "puppy brain" is going to go on for at least a couple more years!  They don't really mature for a couple anyway!

I didn't have my baby as a pup, but I was told they still do puppy stuff into their twos and threes. 

Maybe try something that'll entertain him - wear him out a little before you take him to the park?

[hoegaandit]

Our boy did the same. I'm a somewhat liberal parent so just let him learn from the odd bite that it wasn't in order to rush up. He is now four and stopped doing that several years ago. He is now generally very good with other dogs, letting them sniff him, or even turning away and marking if the other dog looks nervous.

[ksdstny]

sounds a bit like my house and steeler. he is going to be 15 months old. i dont think his puppy brain is ANYWHERE near fully developed. lol. he plays alot like what your describing. harlow gives it right back to him. she lets him know when she's had enough or I let them know when I've had enough.

what has worked for me is...squirting his butt with a squirt bottle. i have a friend who's been showing and breeding bullies for like 30 years, she told me to do it and i was like gaaaaaaaaaaaa NO WAY am i going to squirt my dog. so she said just try, do it on his butt, tell him "OFF" (our word), no name no extraneous words, just OFF. almost MAGIC. it has helped so so much.  i try never to show him the bottle. kind of stealth.

[hoegaandit]

Ooh you sneaky thing ksdstny!

[winwinsmom]

The water bottle is a great trick for keeping kitties from running out the door too.  Trick is to NOT let them see you squirt the bottle so they don't associate the bottle with you....but associating squirts coming at them at the door. 

[markc]

We tried a spray bottle of water in his face a couple times, but he loved the water and tried to drink it.  Now, spraying his butt and verbally correcting him - that's a different idea!  I'll give it a try tonight, see if that works.
Thanks for the tip!

[DaBabaDoo]

I had some of these problems with Maddy, she always wants to rush up to people, she's not real into other dogs but she sees the owners and she says "ooh, more peeps = more pets!!!"

We put a stop to charging right away.  For one, because I don't want people to fear her; but even so, I'm not a very big person, and I don't want to be dragged all over town.  So when we took her for walks as a puppy, we had her on a very short leash.  Only about 3-4 feet, and we made her walk just at our side, NEVER in front of us (if she leads the walks that gives her control physically and mentally - alpha syndrome is hard to break)

We picked areas where other dogs and people would not be hard to come by.  And every time someone came by, we gave Maddy the command to sit or down (if she got really rowdy).  Wait till she is no longer tense, and make sure you have permission to come over, and then walk up to them slowly.  Every time she tried to pull we stop, turn around if you must, make her sit again, and then continue.  It looks a little nutty to the folks you are approaching but just explain that you're training her.  I always tell people "She's an ambassador for her kind, she needs to set a good example for others."

A lot of times, too, I find that when we make her sit, the people will come over to us, which is nice because it makes my job easier.  I just command Maddy to stay in the sit or down position until they arrive, then remind her "now be nice" so she doesn't try to jump on them.  If she does literally all I do is a light touch on the shoulder, one finger is all it takes, it gets her attention and then the command to sit and she instantly calms down.  The trick is catching her before she gets rowdy, at the first sign that she is going to do something bad, and correct her calmly and quietly.  The louder or more aggravated I become, first of all it's embarrassing to others, and it doesn't work anyway bc she thinks it's a game and gets even crazier.  Commands not punishments, commands give her a chance to win praise, punishments are a lose/lose situation for a dog.

[DaBabaDoo]

The play thing is a bit trickier, in my opinion.  But I stick to my same style.  Try to catch him before he gets to the point that you can't control him anymore.  The hard part is drawing the line between what is appropriate play and what is too rough.  He's a bully, they like to tussle, but he needs to understand that he can't play the same with your girl as with the pint-size shih tzu next door.  That, I must admit, I think only comes with time.  Maddy used to be too rough for our little niece, so we actually couldn't let her near the baby without a leash to restrain her.  She just didn't realize that she was more powerful than Brook.  She's better now, but it's still a learning process.

When I play with Maddy, she tends to use her mouth a lot and she doesn't recognize a difference between nips and bites.  She will grab a hold of my arm and not let go unless I  scold her, or squeal that it hurts.  We were told when she bites to make a high pitched yelp noise, like a litter mate would do if she nipped them too hard, but I don't really think that worked all that well.  At first it stopped her bc she found it curious, but after a few times it just became part of the game.  If she bites at me I stand up, give her the sit command, or tell her, "go get your ball".  Once she finds another outlet or she decides to calm down, then we can resume play.  It's hard bc bullies are so stubborn, and they don't get what you are getting at right away.  So it takes tons of patience and continuity, if she does it 100 times, I correct her the same 100 times.  By the end of the play she usually gets my point, or maybe by then she's so worn out that she can't fight back anymore, who knows

[markc]

Thank you for the tips!  And here I thought it was me, but it's the bully breed that gives him his stubbornness! I guess we just need to keep at it - and he'll learn that some behaviors are inappropriate.

thanks again,
mark-and-ollie

 

[DaBabaDoo]

LOL, no it is definitely NOT just you.  Hang in there, they are a difficult breed bc they are the Lenny Combo (dumb, big, strong and stubborn-like Lenny from "Of Mice and Men")  And beside that, a puppy is a puppy.  But don't worry, one day he'll grow out of it, it'll take a while but it happens.  Maddy is now 3 years old and the other bulldog parents in my apartment complex, one with a 6 month old, one with a 1 yr old, they can't get over how calm Maddy is.